Ep. 172- Shirin Etessam on the Quest for Genuine Selfhood

Have you ever felt the weight of expectations pressing down on you, only to find that fulfilling them left you empty? Shirin Etessam, a remarkable transformational speaker and entrepreneur, graces our show to recount her poignant tale of awakening. Her story weaves through the complexities of balancing societal ideals with personal truth, a journey kickstarted by a heart-wrenching breakup. As Shirin unveils her multi year odyssey of introspection, we're given a glimpse into the profound impact her children had on her quest for authenticity. Her narrative is a vibrant reminder that life's true victory lies in internal contentment and the courageous pursuit of self-discovery.

This episode isn't just an exploration of Shirin's life; it's a deep dive into the often uncharted waters of emotional intelligence. We examine how it can be easy to ignore our inner voice amidst the roar of achievements and how a muted internal fire can signify the need for change. Shirin and I dissect the transition periods in relationships and careers, looking beyond the initial luster to the gritty reality of self-accountability. We tackle how societal shifts, such as the Me Too and Black Lives Matter movements, are reshaping our approach to human connections, and how maintaining these bonds is crucial, even when faced with ideological divides.

Wrapping up, we challenge the enticing but misleading allure of the quick fix in personal evolution. Through stories and laughter, we celebrate the intricate beauty of the Farsi language and the resilience found in its lyrical expressions. Shirin's wisdom on financial security and the law of attraction offers practical insights for those seeking to create opportunities and foster growth. As we close, we extend a heartfelt invitation to our audience to join the conversation, sharing their insights and fueling the ongoing dialogue that makes our podcast a beacon for those seeking inspiration and growth.

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Jason Wasser Therapist/Coach
Online Tele-Therapy & Coaching 🖥
The Family Room Wellness Associates
Certified Neuro Emotional Technique Practitioner 
🎧Host:You Winning Life Podcast
🎤Available for speaking engagements

Transcript

PODCAST INTRO: 0:00

This is the you Winning Life podcast your number one source for mastering a positive existence. Each episode will be interviewing exceptional people giving you empowering insights and guiding you to extraordinary outcomes. Learn from specialists in the worlds of integrative and natural wellness, spirituality, psychology and entrepreneurship so you, too, can be winning life. Now here's your host licensed marriage and family therapist, certified neuro emotional technique practitioner and certified entrepreneur coach, jason Wasser.

Jason Wasser: 0:37

Today's guest is Shirin Etisam, who's an entrepreneur season, media executive and transformational speaker. She has produced films, television series and specials, created several companies and led campaigns for some of the world's most recognized companies, including ABC, cbs, discovery, bbc Facebook, apple, intel, virgin and many more. Shirin founded OML TV, a popular platform dedicated to streaming and curating quality, queer female video content, and OML Originals, a female-led production company telling diverse female stories through a vast spectrum of film and television genres. She's also been featured regularly in Rolling Stone Magazine and Forbes, and today she guides seekers in her six week program Free To Be to be disconnected from their human being.

Shirin Etesam: 1:33

Yeah.

Jason Wasser: 1:35

Yeah, All right, everybody welcome back. So usually, usually, usually before we get the show started, you're going to hear a nice little introduction about our guests, and I've kind of gotten away from that the last couple episodes because, number one, you read that in the show topic as it comes up in your browser when you're about to hit play on the show. So I don't want to be redundant in everything and more than that. I think that also starts. I'm feeling that it takes away from our guests, such as Shirin, to be able to be sharing their side of the story without us already having a bias from the info that we hear in my intro, and I feel it takes away and does a disservice sometimes. So first of all, Shirin, welcome to hanging out with us today.

Shirin Etesam: 2:15

I so appreciate you announcing my name Ripley.

Jason Wasser: 2:20

That's part of our cultural shared similarities, of having multiple friends in multiple communities, and it's very much a yeah, I'm in Florida, so I'm the gringo here, and people like when I actually say things with a Latin or Spanish accent, it's like, oh, it's public school, so I'm glad that I'm able to. We were able to start off with that and also I'm just loving that one. We know. I'm sure you're familiar with what your name actually means. I am. Yeah, are you?

Shirin Etesam: 2:54

I'm assuming I am. Some exes have called me bittersweet, but I am pretty sweet.

Jason Wasser: 3:03

Yeah, yeah. And also Shir is a song, this beautiful song. So what you're trying to do is help people bring out the beautiful songs of their own life, with empowerment and the freedom to be them, which takes a lot of effort and a lot of insight and a lot of patience, and you have a really cool story and a really cool journey. So, before we get into what you're doing now, I don't want to ruin it and give away all the good stuff, but I think it's also important for people to understand what makes you so impactful and what you're trying to do and help other people with. That's so impactful from your story about how you got there in the first place.

Shirin Etesam: 3:42

I appreciate that I, like any other person within our society at least Western society, modern society spent many, many years striving for all of those things that we believe we need to achieve and I thought I was winning in life. And a life event in 2013 turned that all around. I separated from my then partner of 13 years and we had two kids together, and this was toward the end of 2013. And it completely broke me. And I didn't understand why it broke me, because I had had heartbreak before and I've read that breakups aren't so much just about a broken heart but about a broken future, because that's the future that you have imagined and planned for and such, and there was certainly that. But it became a straw that broke the camel's back or the tipping point for me, however way you look at it, but it made me realize that the worldly gains I had were not enough. Like it wasn't. It was like I had built this beautiful external life that everybody oed and awed about, and internally I was, I want to say, dead, though I do have the last few years leading up to 2013. I do call them my walking dead years, but it's this feeling of mutedness. It's like muted internally and on crack. Externally, I don't know what else to call it, but it's this being so fully in whatever you want to call it, that treadmill or rat race that it wasn't even aware of the fact that I was so unhappy Because I was living the life that everyone said I should live and it was fine.

Shirin Etesam: 6:11

I mean, it was a cushy, cushy bubble. I wasn't down and out, I didn't have an addiction, none of that stuff but I was really, really muted and I've come to realize that I think that a great number of people aren't facing. I mean, you hear those people who hit rock bottom. You hear about those people who go through tragic events and some persevere and all of that, and that's really great. But I think that there's a large population of people who are just really doing their best according to what they have learned and feel like they're going through the motions of it.

Shirin Etesam: 6:58

And then suddenly you've lost a few decades. And what the F am I doing? What am I doing? So I had that big aha moment. Well, it didn't feel like an aha moment, it felt like crap at the end of 2013. And I was like this can't be my life. I just and I really wanted to find the truth for myself. Nothing was worth it. The only thing that really helped me up was my kids. Like OK them, them. You know, I know that I have to write my ship for them.

Jason Wasser: 7:41

Right.

Shirin Etesam: 7:43

And so I went through six very challenging years, in that I mean challenging, in that I challenged myself Like what's in this? Nothing, franny. What's in this corner? What have I not looked at? And I did many workshops, read so many books, watched every video there was to watch, sat with Buddhist monks. You know like I did it all and it was really really difficult and challenging and turned everything around and after six years I really felt like I was whole. I remember actually leaving this one specific workshop and it was 2019, at the beginning of 2019. And I was like, oh, and I realized at that time two things One, that if I don't tell me I wanted to be married, I wanted to be with someone, but I knew that if I was not, that I would be totally fine. And I also knew that if I died that day, I didn't want to, but I knew that I had lived a full life. Like it felt really bad.

Jason Wasser: 9:12

There was that completion of that, and I just wanna paint a bigger picture for people who haven't yet delved into reading your bio and this is kind of why I wanna try. Something a little bit different with you is like you said, things were going really well, you were successful, there was no negative right? There was no addictions, there was none of these crazy things. Paint a picture of what all of that success looked like for people who have no clue, who haven't Googled you yet. What was going on in your world? What were you doing? Who were you hanging out with All those things, right? You know, like I really want them to see like this.

Jason Wasser: 9:47

What you're describing is whether someone is in destitute or someone is hanging out with high rollers and being a high roller, whatever, and that whole spectrum in between. We still have the work to do. We still have to do the unpackaging, we still have to peel away the layers. We still have to have growth and self-awareness and authenticity and accountability. So, but like you said, there was all these wonderful things going on and going right in your life. So just paint a picture of what that was professionally and for everybody.

Shirin Etesam: 10:24

Yeah, so I'm a media executive and my background is in film. I actually produced the very first feature film that was ever streamed online. It premiered online. It's called Wallace of Sand, if you care to watch. It was back in 96 and the technology wasn't quite there. It kind of looked like a slideshow. But my background is in film and broadcasting.

Shirin Etesam: 10:54

I ran quite a few series for the Discovery Network and Scripps Network and a lot of specials for the likes of ABC and BBC and Channel 4. And so very much in that world. And then in 2008, I switched over to the agency world, just because there was a lot of opportunity there and the online world. So, yeah, a lot of hobnobbing, a lot of award shows, a lot of hanging out with celebrities, which I won't rabbit hole, but I had amazing, I mean like you know, at the various Emmy and Oscar parties, which is all really fun.

Shirin Etesam: 11:49

So you know, whatever the homes, the cars, the awards, the accolades, again, I just like I remember at the time, I mean this is leading to the breakup. We had this gorgeous home in Sonoma and people would come there and be oohing and oing. It was sort of like this Tuscan villa and they remember it was like. I was like I remember at the time I was like the shining. You know where there was the gorgeous resort and Jack Nicholson's character was like losing his mind. That's how I was. I was like I just have no idea what's going on in here, like it's just.

Jason Wasser: 12:38

Right, and that's a picture. I wanted to paint it because you had this American dream you have, like what people say they want and what people say they're working for, and have this relationship and family and homes and success and impact Right. And this space inside of us is and I know like we were talking a little bit before we started the conversation, before we started recording was just this like cultural, community, intergenerational pressures that we play out that we don't even realize is not getting us to where we wanna go. And in your situation it sounds like you had this big thing right, this very big thing that just tore that fabric. Some people have less intense experiences that brings them to that, but in your situation it was a very intense experience for them. That became an eye-opener to do something different versus repeating the same thing over and over again.

Shirin Etesam: 13:35

Yeah, and it's sort of. I suppose the law of something in motion will stay in motion unless you don't hit with a external.

Jason Wasser: 13:45

Unless you hit the wall on it. Yeah.

Shirin Etesam: 13:48

And I feel like I, and actually I think that there is a lot less growth when one of life's many paradoxes, like when life is at its cushiest, we tend to have the least amount of growth because there is nothing. We don't really feel like we need to strive for anything. So again, externally, I thought I'm fine. So why and everybody looking in, it'd be different if I was just like down and out or I was getting a bottle or something. People are like you need help you know, but I didn't have any of that.

Shirin Etesam: 14:28

I was super organized, I was productive, I made a good living, I had, I mean, even the community and the friends and all of that. It's just that internal fire was completely extinguished and I wasn't even aware of it and the tricky thing is that I was also doing work that I love. I mean, I still love doing that, I'm still executive producer on a bunch of different projects, because I love the creativity and the entertainment industry and especially the type of projects I'm working on now. So it wasn't even that, I mean, and I think that's important to point out, because people look at their life and go I'm fine, I'm fine and maybe they are. But I think that if anyone listening or watching feels that there is something missing, that there's a muting of something within the community that's just not showing up or being allowed to show up, there's work to do. That is it? Yeah, agreed, I had a conversation before we jumped on this.

Jason Wasser: 15:52

I had my last session for the morning with one of my clients and I was talking to them about the awareness of they're really good and the people they're attracting are really good at the attraction to the community, the attraction to the beginning dating phase and that first stage of being in a relationship that we can call maybe the first 90 days, and then what happens after that. They're really good at that stage and they're really good at attracting people in that stage who are good in that level From the other side. The other person's also good at it. But then, once they're in the relationship to commitment, relationship to is this the person I want to be with over a long period of time? That's the stage where I find a lot of people are just not good at and we're so used to, with all the amount of dating and like everybody's going on hundreds and hundreds of dates, or even with job interviews. Like people are really really good at doing job interviews and they're really good at the first few weeks of work. But then what happens when it becomes monotonous and boring and you don't have someone investing in you and you don't have a team leader or a boss guiding you anymore and you're not right. I think a lot you know this idea of accountability and ownership of like.

Jason Wasser: 17:05

What you were saying is, if you're feeling something, it's like the. What is it like on the subways in New York if you see something, say something, but we're not, but we're usually putting it to blame outside of us, versus like the word that when you're talking about muting. I've been playing with the. You know the word malaise a lot. Like you just can't put your finger on it, but you know something is wrong and you don't feel awful and you're not necessarily clinically depressed but just something feels missing and right and it is that muted.

Jason Wasser: 17:36

So like there's a part of you that's like diminished. You're not bright, you're not, you know like feeling, like your energy is going out into the world, and I think that that's like pre-pandemic, pre-this pandemic. I think that's been like there's a few emotional pandemics that I think have been going on in the world. One is codependence, of being in codependent relationships, but two, is that what you're describing? I think you put your finger on that very clearly. I think that's what I think that's been going on in the world for a while now and you really are describing what I think majority of people don't even realize is what's happening.

Shirin Etesam: 18:10

Well, and there's actually research behind this and you know they say that as children, somewhere between age zero and seven, we either detach or disassociate, depending on the degree of the severity of what happened, with our true essence. So detachment could be like you know you're in your crib and you're crying, your parents don't come soon enough and you're like, oh well, what I need, what I naturally need, doesn't work. So you create some sort of even as a baby or as a toddler, some sort of strategy for something different. So you don't trust what is within you because it hasn't been effective. That would be like detachment and disassociation. You know there's a variety of a spectrum of disassociation and it could be you know somebody's in a very toxic environment as a kid and it's like that's not safe, so I am going to protect myself.

Shirin Etesam: 19:27

So what happens at that time? We end up taking our starting to take our cues from the outer world rather than trusting our inner essence. And then things we enforce that way because when we go to school and I mean I can talk all day long. I don't know if you watched the Sir Ken Robinson famous TED talk, but he talks about how our education system is broken. And really it's broken because we don't teach our children the most fundamental conversations within life. You know, we teach them so much academic intelligence and very little emotional intelligence, so we grow up not even believing that that is a priority. And that's changing now. I mean you look at the Northern European countries and they are very much baking that in and yeah, I mean again, I can go on and on about our education.

Jason Wasser: 20:33

I have this further for those who are listening and not watching. I have this huge grin on my face, as Sherin was saying that it's because one of the conversations I had this morning was with one of my clients who they come from a culture where performance and achievement is priority and I asked them so tell me more about you being praised for being a kind soul.

Jason Wasser: 21:05

And when are you getting that now in this present-day relationship?

Jason Wasser: 21:08

And are you getting that from your family of origin, where you were praised for just being a kind and gracious, loving person, versus what can you do for somebody else and how can you achieve, and then how can they benefit from your achievement, which is very cultural in some ways?

Jason Wasser: 21:25

And that's exactly what we're not getting now, especially when we're in a culture where you're feeling F your feelings your feelings don't matter and creativity, and I love that, the fact that there are education systems that are now especially preschools but it's funny, it's always preschools and maybe some elementary schools Montessori or Emilio Reggio or those type of that are inspired with bringing that out and the children, but there's none like not seeing Montessori high schools or Emilio Reggio high schools or these, like I mean, you may have these creative arts based schools, like you know, for music and whatever, but it's still performance based and skill based and mastering mastery as opposed to like, like you said, this emotional intelligence as well, and you usually have the more artsy type of people who are going to be off the beaten path, personality wise, anyway.

Shirin Etesam: 22:16

But it is also, though, I should say, and it is also those students who graduate who create the corporations and companies that we work for. Like you talk about things being systematic. I mean it's we we create, and you're absolutely right, the artists are the only exception in this. I mean, and true artists, and I know that it's we don't make it easy for them. You know, we don't reward the artists the way we do. Somebody, you know, creating a startup or whatever it is.

Shirin Etesam: 22:56

So and then, when you haven't been raised with that, how are you able to incorporate that into a company culture? Or, you know, so we are this generational, it's educational, you know, and again, we don't even think about it until somebody comes along. I so often think about, like the Me Too movement or Black Lives Matter and, frankly, the pandemic, like those are things that, on mass, suddenly shift our perception. Like I, you know, I was in the entertainment industry. I wasn't necessarily on the casting couch, you know, but I did have, you know, kind of inappropriate dinners with executive producers who just wanted, you know, let's talk over dinner about this, and like there was a lacy of that, of even in the right, even the 90s, 2000s.

Jason Wasser: 24:00

I remember hearing from someone I met in 1996 who grew up there and they were in high school and they started working in LA and the whole, you know, in the entertainment industry and they told me some stories. So we're talking about like the mid to late 80s and that it was just a, it was just was it just was.

Shirin Etesam: 24:20

It's how it is. Like you, like you're going to take down Harvey Weinstein, right, you're going to take down, like, ah, that is impossible, but it is possible.

Shirin Etesam: 24:33

And up until the time that that happened, like it wasn't in my brain and it was like you know, you have to play the game and this is how it is and you know, just blah, blah, blah. But no. So paradigm shift and black lives matter. Paradigm shift, right Pandemic. Oh, like we could actually work from home and still really function and and and even thrive as a society.

Jason Wasser: 25:02

Correct, yeah, you know yeah, and I think that's the whole basis of, like you know, pre when people have conversations. I've a good friend of mine and it's a contrasting story. I have a good friend of mine who we haven't seen each other often as we did before before the pandemic, and I reached out to him. The other day I was at a concert where I saw he's very much into country music and we have very different political which I whatever very different political agendas, but we but we always focus like our friendship and our respect for each other always came first. And I remember, like, when I met him the other day, we we just sat down and like it was great and it was just so nice, like and even though he was presenting some things and I'm like, oh okay, yeah, that makes sense, it wasn't like there was no going for the jugular, even though we're diametrically opposed on certain things, but it was just like the common, the human decency factor was there.

Jason Wasser: 25:51

And I remember I was out at an event a few weeks ago contrasting this and I was talking to a young couple that just got engaged and I knew that we had different political beliefs and I said to him I'm very much looking forward to getting to know you know, even, and getting to know you and even if we disagree, my, I still look forward to liking you at the end of the conversation.

Jason Wasser: 26:10

And he's like, oh, that's really nice. And he like, pull this fiance into the conversation. She's like, yeah, that's not going to be my agenda, like you're willingly starting off with that I disagree with you on politics, that you're going to want to, that you're willingly telling me you already hate me, like, and there's just these, like different, like embracing of, like creating different and other, but whether even it's work or relationships, like even, like I see it, with relationships, I know one of the things that you are talking about with all the different ways that your book can show up is how do you navigate this, even in relationships? Is not seeing, talking about the emotional intelligence, not seeing the value of which we can have relative influence on each other in a positive way, versus trying to force it down each other's throats?

Shirin Etesam: 26:49

That's the thing and I think that, you know, we as humans live life as if our opinion is the way it is. I mean, I have my political views, I have you know, but that it doesn't. That's just that. I think that is a part of being human. It's our ability to put our you know and it sounds cliche putting our differences aside, but not even just putting our differences aside shifting that conversation to what it means to be human and how we came to our various opinions and if there is a way for us to meet in the middle. So, like me and my in-laws also have very different political views and we've, we just made the decision that we will not have those conversations when we have family gatherings, because we are together as a family and as humans, and it's not that we are ignoring politics or not politically aware or whatever, but we are actively choosing to come to the table as humans and connect that way, and that is what I want because I think that's so much more powerful.

Shirin Etesam: 28:19

Well, when you do the work of self-transformation, there is a accountability that is baked in that you can't escape Like. There is no way that you can do self-transformation, the way that it becomes a wake-up call for yourself and not feel a sense of responsibility, whether it is community-wide or global, like for me. What happens in Uganda is important to me. It is an oh, what's happening over there. The world is my community and is incredibly important. Some things I can affect, some things I can't.

Jason Wasser: 29:19

But you're also saying you should be aware of what's going on out there so you can have any level of impact on a local that can trickle down to the world.

Shirin Etesam: 29:29

And it's a level of empathy and compassion as a human. So it is the opposite of the othering that you're talking about, and I had this whole conversation during gay pride and I don't want to rabbit hole down that way, but, like the whole, like it used to be LGBT and now it's LGBTQIA, and then it's LGBTQIA2+ and they're just adding to it. And again, while I stand shoulder to shoulder with all the other letters within the group, there is a danger in bucketing anything that is outside of straight into the other category. This is the normal. And then there's the other. And, yes, and it used to be that we were tolerated and now we're accepted.

Jason Wasser: 30:30

Right, and even within that community of the subdivisions of tolerates and not tolerating within that subcommittee.

Shirin Etesam: 30:37

Oh, my God, yeah the subcommittees.

Jason Wasser: 30:38

Yeah, yeah, I see. Well, it's in everything, right. I mean, you can break that down and even apply it, and even until, like the performing arts world, right? Or I see it with my military clients, like how they'll always rag on different parts of like you know, like, oh, we're a marine and you're just like Coast Guard, that's not really our services.

Shirin Etesam: 31:00

Or even I mean, I'm Iranian and I would say, yes, I definitely person of color, and there's actually Iranians that don't even consider themselves people of color, but there are definitely more privileged minorities than others. So you can't say that you know, like a again, like a trans woman will not have the same privileges as a straight white, gay guy.

Jason Wasser: 31:32

I mean, that's just how it fits. It's nuanced, it's all nuanced, right For sure.

Shirin Etesam: 31:39

Yes, coming back, dialing it all back to human conversations, like the very essential conversation, like what does your, what does your soul want at this time? What is it, what is it reaching out for? That's what I'm interested in.

Jason Wasser: 32:02

It's so hard, right, it's so. It's so challenging because, as a therapist, as someone who works with entrepreneurs, as someone who works with performing artists, it's so interesting that where one, when ego, gets in there, then we're then it's, then we're distracted, that's all it is we're happy.

Shirin Etesam: 32:19

My ego versus your ego. Yeah, you're right, I'm yeah.

Jason Wasser: 32:25

And when I and just to tie that into that story with that couple when I was talking to the guy I said, can we start the conversation with all the things that we do agree on and that's like that, open that door right? The fiance wasn't part of that conversation. I was really trying to say I know, I know I kind of knew who were the pants in that relationship. It was kind of obvious just by their energy of the two of them and like, and I really and I set that intention there and it was just so not received that there was just this blatant like I'm not going to connect with you, I don't want to connect with you, I don't want to connect with. And that can happen on both extreme political parties and I think both sides are really stupid and I'm going to call them out on that for doing that and being the wall of like well, you, that right, that's just not healthy and that's not like.

Jason Wasser: 33:10

And I see this with my clients and I'm challenging with one of my clients, former military, and I'm like listen, you and I. We know that we disagree on so many things, but I'm only here to help you get things that make you feel better you get things that make you feel healthier, make you feel happier and make and, more importantly, make you feel more connected with more things and more people. So if it does the opposite of that, if a belief does opposite of that, if an experience does opposite, if it doesn't allow you to connect more to yourself and more to others, and it's probably not a healthy thing, and I would say that to someone on the other side of the political coin too. So there has to be some baseline of, like you're saying that, your soul figuring that out, so like, what would be like where would you start with someone just to help them identify that? And obviously you know, but that's going to tie into your book and to your courses.

Jason Wasser: 33:58

Obviously I don't want to give away too much that you know people. I want to leave a little bit of something to the imagination. But where, like what would you kind of like just kind of jab them with to say, like you know what? Here's where you? Here's the first question I would maybe leave you with and have you start contemplating if this is really, if you're feeling muted, if you're feeling this malaise, this numbness, you're not getting that what you say you want. Look here.

Shirin Etesam: 34:24

Well, that's it's a tricky one, because the very first chapter and week of my book in the process is mind detox, and I started there because that's the biggest culprit. You talk about the ego. That that is it, or our mind is so closely attached to our ego. It is. It is the place that is attached. It's not our heart, you know. It's certainly not our soul, it's not our body, it's our mind. That is very, very coupled with our, our ego, and more threatened we are, the more protective we feel, the stronger are our egos. So we can either and and this is interesting and I know you'll agree with me, just because you are a practicing therapist A mental health had the same stigma that spiritual health has now. Like 10 years ago you'd be like go see my therapist, right, yeah, wasn't like hey world, I'm going to take a mental health break now.

Jason Wasser: 35:51

And for everybody to be like I'll let everybody know, and people are cheering you on for that, yeah spiritual health.

Shirin Etesam: 35:57

I believe it has that same stigma right now, and so, in order for us to do the type of work that I recommend and suggest in the book, we truly have to get out of our own way, and the only way that we can do that? Well, there's two, the two main things that I talked about in that week, and I won't elaborate. But one is not believing everything we think. So, you know, when people talk about awareness or consciousness, it's literally stepping outside of our thoughts, and there are ways to do it. Meditation is one of them, but not everybody is a meditator, so I talked about various other ways of doing it.

Shirin Etesam: 36:55

And then the other part is to limit or curate the content that we consume, because we're so bombarded with everything and I don't know if you saw the social dilemma, but the documentary about how the creators of social media never intended to create the Frankenstein that is created, and you can't really even point your finger anywhere because, in order for the companies to succeed, they need advertising dollars, and the ones that have the biggest advertising dollars are the corporations, and the corporations have strong political tie-ins and what the social platforms are doing, what they've been programmed to do, which is to feed people more of what they believe the people want. So we're all in these echo chambers and so either it's the echo chamber or we turn on the TV and you know especially the news it is created. I mean, I've been on that side where you are, like it's formulated so that it becomes provocative and like these things are so measured, we're going to bring this in at our, you know, 203. We're going to draw this in at 207. I mean, I've done the programming Right, so and so.

Jason Wasser: 38:42

So crazy, but it's pro, but it's literally programmed. I mean like, in other words, it's programming us and the best thing I could. I was at Dave Matthews Band Concert last week and like the first five, six, seven songs were just like it kept building and building and building and he was like great, I played a fast song and it was great you know well-known song. And then he just went to something that was just like super slow and it was a new song and all of a sudden you see, like it isn't Dave Matthews, there's 20 something, thousand, 30,000 people there and I'm like, oh, it's bathroom time. I'm going to the bathroom and like I see like it's emptying out and I'm like, oh my God, like what a lost opportunity, because I can't imagine like the average person.

Jason Wasser: 39:24

I mean this is like the one thing I would say about like a Dave Matthews show is like I've been to a few and it's at same rhythm, like I don't know if Taylor Swift is doing that, I don't know. I think I don't know if that's like, oh, I need to do my new song and I have a new album that just came out, like so therefore I need to put this in. But it was like being mindful of that energetic flow, but like that's like what you're saying, like social media and news, and like these things are baked in to the programming, neurologically and physiologically, to get that compelling hook, which I think, on the other side, when you, when you just referenced a TED Talk a few minutes ago, I think that's what's so brilliant about TED Talks. There's a formula to TED Talks and there's a great video.

Jason Wasser: 40:01

I can't remember the name of the gentleman who did this. He basically gave a TED Talk where it was him basically doing, with the magic of the TED Talk, wise, he's like. And now I'm gesticulating wildly into the crowd with my pair of glasses that I'm wearing, that don't even have lenses that makes me look smarter, and I'm going to put my glasses in my hands. I'm going to bite the tip of my glasses and now I'm going to wave it in the air as if I'm really punctuating the point. Yeah, it was a brilliant TED Talk.

Shirin Etesam: 40:28

Yep, oh my God, I have to watch it.

Jason Wasser: 40:30

And now I'm going to raise my voice like I'm getting to the crescendo about you should be taking something away and there's something wrong with you if you don't get my point. Awesome, it was the TED Talk. About TED Talks, right, yeah, but I think that's what you're. What you're sharing is like that's what we're being programmed to do culturally and societally at some level, without even realizing it.

Shirin Etesam: 40:53

It's truly. It's truly quieting the mind. I mean it blows me away how we are so afraid of our minds being quieted, being able to truly sit in silence. I mean it's like as soon as we finish work, we'll, you know, turn on the TV show, we'll transition to something else, like it's just, and then we're all wondering, like, why do we feel so overwhelmed? And, you know, underwhelmed and all of that? I mean it is and I talk about it in the book there's a thing called intoxication. It's literally content overload, so you can't make really clear decisions, sure, and it's kind of like, you know, a state of limbo, almost.

Jason Wasser: 41:58

And we're going to go for the thing that are the least resistance or the we're most, you know, consistently, habitually doing. It's funny, while you're talking about that, like obviously you know, I don't want to distract people from the work that your book is doing, but I'm thinking of two books that I think are really powerful to get more information, to kind of support what you're accomplishing for people. One is the untethered soul, which sounds a lot like what you're. There you go, so there you go.

Shirin Etesam: 42:22

I have to little story about.

Jason Wasser: 42:23

Yeah.

Shirin Etesam: 42:24

Go ahead.

Jason Wasser: 42:27

And the other one is is all the work that Steven Porges is doing with the polyvegal theory about the enteroception and, right, the internal and external stimuli where a nervous system is just so flooded and that how, like what you're describing of cultural phenomena, social media, tv movies. Right, all these things are. Our nervous system is already so emotionally dysregulated that it knows how to take advantage. Right, that these these things are built to capitalize on our emotional dysregulation and especially the political conflicts for lack of a better word shitshow. Let's just call that that, that it's capitalizing on this regulation.

Shirin Etesam: 43:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's interesting that you talk about Michael Singer because and I love him for for many reasons, but when he wrote the untethered soul, he was going through the biggest litigation of his life and most people don't know that. His background, much like mine, isn't in. You know, he's not a doctor, is not a therapist, not a license. Maybe he is at this point, but back then, and I think still, he was a geeky engineer, you know, and he had a major, a home moment, his company was being sued and I don't know the details of it. So when people read that they just think, oh, you know, this author must have you know he has it all figured out right.

Shirin Etesam: 44:02

And has it. But literally he was writing that, which makes that book even more profound, because if you could go through that much strife and that much stress and to be able to find that sanctuary, refuge within yourself, then you truly are unbreakable. Right, and that's that's it. I mean, that's that's also my book. It isn't a matter of and I think that when people do these types of programs or go to retreats, you know they go to find the answer and you know they again ascribe to this, don't ascribe to that, and all of that but truthfully, it isn't a matter of arriving to a wonderland, because this life is super challenging and difficult. So it is how you walk through it as gracefully and soulfully as possible, and it's truly it.

Jason Wasser: 45:12

Yeah, and these retreats and these, it's. It's, as I look around in front of me, the all the bookshelves and books and stuff that I have in the closet right, it's wonderful and it's enriching, and it's not one book that has been the silver bowl and I think that's kind of like one of the things. And even as an author and as a person, and he's in a personal development, right, it's the book that you need to write right now and, like you said, like you're gonna, the fact that it could be multi, variable to different subsets of different types of challenges or communities, or that. That that's what's there. There's these ideas that are just going to be stepping stones for the next layer that people need to peel away, and that's really what this whole thing is. It's just the next layer of the onion made.

Jason Wasser: 45:54

The husks of that and the reminder is is that, like, underneath it all, we're all actually really beautifully wonderful, healthy individuals? It's the stories that like gunked us up, it's the belief of those stories, it's the buy into those things, that the traumas, that whatever, right, but but are talking about from that soul level. Right, that's untouchable, that's unbreakable, that's undestroyable, that's unmodeled. But we believe that, you know, maybe this is part of where your book leads. People is realizing that that was never damaged in the first place. It's just the husks that we write, the onion layers that we're peeling away.

Shirin Etesam: 46:33

And that is so spot on. So much. I mean literally the first part of the book the sent to you parts. The first part of the book is all about the peeling away, because whatever our true essence is is sitting way, way, way underneath all the schmuck we have put on top of it Again from the time we detached or disassociated from our true essence at a very young age. So to be I in my block and few times I've mentioned it and I'll mention it really quickly, but the most beautiful visual that I have from it and my background is is in film and entertainment is the black stallion. Did you ever see the black stallion?

Jason Wasser: 47:25

I don't remember. I'm thinking like 80s and I'm like yeah.

Shirin Etesam: 47:31

And this is hopefully he he is directed to put. He's a good producer. So just really, really quickly, boy and salient get shipwrecked during the same shipwreck. They ended up getting stranded on an island together and it's just the two of them and they spend some time. They're afraid of one another but they slowly form a friendship and the black stallion slowly allows the boy to ride bearback on him and there's all these like gorgeous cinematic shots of them right on the beach during sunset. And they're told they are rescued and brought back to society and they try to separate the boy and the horse and neither one of them will have it and they're like, okay, the two of them have to be together.

Shirin Etesam: 48:20

So she, he studies to be a jockey, because that makes sense, right to be close to. So he gets all this training, the best coaches, all this stuff and they show a whole thing of that. And then he is at this big race and out of the gate he and the horse stumble and all the other horses take off, and then he writes himself and then they're you know, and clearly you know upset and he starts writing again. And this is where the magic comes in, and I still get goosebumps whenever I talk about it, he starts stripping away everything, like everything you know there's goggles, his helmet, his whip, he's and he starts writing the horse the way he did on that beach, and and then, of course, they end up winning the race. Yeah, but that's. That's what it is.

Jason Wasser: 49:19

Because it's always been there. It's always been there.

Shirin Etesam: 49:24

It's doing that thing that is calling you forth, and and when I talk about the soul and they tried really hard not to be too woo woo in my you know, because it's like you talk about the soul and it gets mixed with, you know, spirit, and there are two different things which I talk about in that in the book. But our soul is truly our unique signature in this universe. Like no other organism, has the same makeup as you do, and there's something so beautiful about that. And yet we are raised to become cookie cutters and be like everybody else, and there's only these specific professions, and this is good, that is bad, all that stuff. So of course, we're like we ended up becoming robotic and anybody who is artists, which is circling back to that. They're the only ones that I truly know who are not detached from their true essence, who are living in it, and we don't make it easy for them.

Jason Wasser: 50:35

No, no, I know Esther Hicks in the Law of Attraction world calls that your inner guidance system. Yeah, and then we create resistance and our right is to drop the resistance around allowing what is, and I see this all the time. I see this with me, I see this with my clients. One of the things I do this modality called neuroemotional technique and it's using it's originally came out of chiropractic and but it evolved into other licensed mental health practitioners and acupuncturists and other stuff. But we're basically looking for the physiological stress pattern and the nervous and the way this story and that became involved in our nervous system and our you know it can turn into physical symptoms and stuff like that.

Jason Wasser: 51:14

So yesterday we had to get together for local practitioners in South Florida and the thing I worked on was being congruent in the words, being as neutral as possible with helping the people that are so successful that my client right, attracting more clients that are incredibly successful, so that can help me right. The more I can help them, the more that can help me Right, as opposed to like it being this one way thing and obviously what does that mean? It's not like well, I'm using them. It's that my biggest referral source has always been from clients that I've been able to give the most to, and the better I do, the better my clients do, the more I'll do.

Jason Wasser: 51:51

Well, right, so, but it was like finding the ways that I have resistance on helping my clients that are really successful become more successful so that, in return, it can help me, as opposed to, like you know, like no, no, I'm just giving. I'm just giving. It's not because we all have that Like, even like you know, even we all need and I think that's breaking the idea of like, even for therapists that like we don't have this, like no, no, we're just like this blank slate, but we're not Like we all have our stuff still, but I want to right, but it's me getting in front of the right people.

Shirin Etesam: 52:22

We also just think that it's a really beautiful way of thinking about it or approaching it, because then you're always evolving right. Every person that you see helps your evolution, instead of this blank canvas which you know you're human too.

Jason Wasser: 52:42

Correct, correct. And even if you look at it from any profession, right, whatever industry, I'll just use mine. Is it right? A broke therapist isn't a good therapist? No, definitely not A broke. Anybody is not a good, anything right. So one of my friends just posted online like the best way. It's very interesting. We can get into a whole debate about this, but we've been, you know, not even a debate, but I'm sure we can talk about all the different ways. Culturally that this may not make sense, but the best way to help those that are financially insecure and insecure right and financial insecurity is for you to not be financially insecure yourself, because then you can create stuff, you can empower, you can give more charity you can. So you know it's the rising tide, raises up all ships mentality.

Shirin Etesam: 53:27

Absolutely, and it's also coming back to the whole law of attraction. You know, there's some things I relive and some things that are a little even too woo-woo for me, but I think that I absolutely believe in energy, you know. So that type of energy influences, you know I mean energy influences anyway, so why not have positive impact?

Jason Wasser: 53:56

Yeah, yeah, and the way I do woo-woo it is that it's all neurology and physiology.

Jason Wasser: 54:03

So our neurology can only read our physiology and our neurology combined together, Like when we're looking at our emotional reality. It can see only that which it's in alignment with, based on our beliefs, assumptions and expectations, to the point of the amount of work that we've done, and not much more. And we can only attract right. What do you mean by attract? In other words, we can only let in, not let in Like how many situations and that was one of the things I was working on in what ways am I dismissing or diminishing or not allowing opportunities for me to be in front of the people that I can really also serve powerfully, equally powerfully, that also in a way that they might be like, oh, like Jason. Here's, in return, another way in which I can be useful to you in your career and help you get in front of different people and people who are more like that right, and it's whatever belief, assumption and expectations I carry has to be diminished about that right and cleared out.

Shirin Etesam: 55:01

That's exactly the paradigm shift that I'm talking about. Yeah, like you doing that, then you know it's interesting, because as I step into this world and I'm considered a subject matter expert, how people view me, you know, and I think that it is really important for those who are in a leadership position to point out that we don't live perfect lives, that we don't. You know it's not like. You know, we are mistake free and all of that. That it's a evolution, and there isn't one self transformation thought leader that is out there who I just think is perfection and there is no such thing right. So and I could there are a few who are now speaking about that that there's a level of transparency which I so appreciate.

Jason Wasser: 56:07

And the vulnerability right. Brené Brown was a good example of that.

Shirin Etesam: 56:11

Yeah, Brené Brown is a good example, Mel Robbins is another one of two, you know, because we come to a place where we have this level of awareness and we're compelled to share it because we feel that it will benefit those who need it. But there isn't. We're not striving for perfection and we are humans who are also evolving. Do I believe that there's different levels of consciousness and awareness in this world? Absolutely, you know, and there are so many things I have yet to learn, but that you know it's. I'm not done in any way.

Shirin Etesam: 56:56

Thank goodness for that Nor is any other self-transformation. You know the Anthony Robbins of the world.

Jason Wasser: 57:05

Sure.

Jason Wasser: 57:05

You have their they're always evolving and that's the cool thing, and especially seeing people on their journey, like one of the things I was watching was his name just blanked out on me, but I had his book before his Netflix show, ramit Sethi, and seeing right, and how many years ago I read his books and now I'm like, and then it's seen that he had a Netflix show that came out a few months ago and I'm like, oh man, like he's been doing this for like 19 or something years and he like I mean just the brilliance in it of like, just like the patience with the process, and I can't like think no, no, no, this is not something that I don't. Obviously anybody wants to be the. You know, tomorrow they want to become the successful person, but him mapping out like, no, this is not going to be a slow, this is a slow burn, so I don't burn out fast long-term. And it made me so excited, like when they popped up on Netflix, said he had a TV show, like that was like how cool that like X amount of years after his book came out, it's that he finally is like one of those people that got discovered with just doing the due diligence, and I think it's not, it's the commitment to connection over perfection.

Jason Wasser: 58:08

For me is connecting to yourself, connecting to your people, connecting to community, connecting to all the different ways that tapestry can become more colorful. You know, I guess maybe it is that metaphor of, like you know, the code of many colors type of thing. Right, and it makes a much more beautiful tapestry. But we have to start with that inner work with ourself, of not cutting out all of the possible opportunities that are literally right in front of us. And that's kind of what I'm hearing from you is that when we do that work, when we go into ourselves, when we do the deeper work for ourselves, we're going to start seeing that they've A been there all along. But to give ourself opportunity to see more opportunities and to create more opportunities to be truly the healthiest version of ourselves.

Shirin Etesam: 58:53

Absolutely, and I think that the other myth that is reinforced in our society is the quick fix. You know you talked about the slow burn it's. I don't know anyone who has turned their lives around. You know, within a day you can make that decision and move toward it.

Jason Wasser: 59:17

Sure.

Shirin Etesam: 59:18

But the process is it takes a while and it takes as long as it takes. I mean, when I was grieving my relationship. People learn. People around me learn very quickly that they could not tell me to be on with it, like, oh well, you've been grieving this long, it's been six months. You need to quote unquote let go, because we don't really let go anyway. Right, we just gifted forward to other people. But there's this notion in our society that we just have to get on with it, like, and it's just again like the quick fix. You know, give me three pointers and while those three pointers is sort of like, really like going to the gym, you know those when you're working out. If you go once a year and you work out once, you're like oh, this feels good, you know, right.

Jason Wasser: 1:00:14

But no abs, after that one time trip, don't walk out disappointed that you don't got them right.

Shirin Etesam: 1:00:18

Right. So it's that you know. It's that same thing. It's like you. I could give you three quick tips and it may be handy, but if you haven't done the groundwork of it, then you're on to the next three, you know, or the 10 big, you know. Whatever it is, you know, and as a society we're built that way. And why, like why, do you need the quick tips in order for you to go and do the more important work which you're dreading doing? I mean, like, yeah, a lot of crazy making.

Jason Wasser: 1:00:52

Yeah, a lot of crazy making so, as we're, as we're wrapping up for people to find you one, there's the book, so just drop, drop some places they can read, connect, learn, engage with you. Where are those places?

Shirin Etesam: 1:01:09

So anything that is associated with me as a author and a self-transformation speaker is in my name. So shirinatossamcom and all my socials, whether it Instagram. On Facebook, I'm shirinatossamauthor, but TikTok LinkedIn well, linkedin, it's shirinatossam, regardless of what I'm doing. So find me, I am really good with DMs. I might not get back fast, but I will get back and try and very, very hard to answer anything. That's not spam directly, but it does take me a little while no crypto spams will be answered.

Jason Wasser: 1:02:02

So, and the book is called Free to Be a Six-Week Guide to Reclaiming your Soul, and I have one side curveball question for you. So one of my favorite things about the Iranian community is you guys have amazingly poetic curses, and one of them I've heard is Mayor Arm Pits right, if you really want to get someone, may your armpits be infested with a sweat of a thousand. Camels is one, and another one is may your neighbors never have garbage to take out, meaning they're not celebrating, they're not having guests over there and people are not celebrating with them. They're not having a food. Is there one that comes to your mind? I know it's a hardcore curveball, but is there one that comes to your mind that's just so hysterically poetic and beautiful and funny at the same time? That is.

Shirin Etesam: 1:02:57

I don't know if I could think of one that is in that line, but we have. It's such a gorgeous Persian is such a Farsi is such a Farsi yeah. It's a very, very gorgeous language and it's very, very precise. So we have, like, for example, the word take you go. It means someone to lean on, so one word that has that meaning. Like. We don't have that, or at least I'm not aware of it.

Jason Wasser: 1:03:28

So we're very, very it's poetic, yeah, it's poetically on point, yeah yeah, there's quite a lot of that, which isn't surprising that the, the Fayyams and the Rumi's are all From that background, yeah, yeah, there was such beautiful, I mean the literature, and I mean just the wisdom that was coming out from that, from those areas which are so fascinating, so that you know and then we have other things that are really funny, like how we've acquired certain words and we can like get into it, but there's like Chosephine, for example.

Jason Wasser: 1:04:15

Popcorn and elephant right. Popcorn and elephant parts.

Shirin Etesam: 1:04:17

But there's a reason for that, because somebody mispronounced something and then it just built on that.

Jason Wasser: 1:04:23

So yeah, yeah, I remember hearing that one for the first time. It's great, that's great. So, yeah, so cool. So, all right, to everybody who's been listening, one, you know, thank you again for listening and if there's anything in this episode that you know for you, you loved, just leave us a review, just so you know we know that you're listening and it helps other people find this. But, too, if there's anything specifically that you took away from this, reach out to you, reach out to Sheereen directly, reach out to me. Let us both know, because you know that's why we're doing this, that's why she's taking her time out of her really busy schedule to spend time with me and for us, and you know why I love doing this so much. So, sheereen, thank you again and really I'm glad that we were able to have this conversation and hopefully well as the book evolves from the different you know categories and the different things. Come on, joel, you'll please come back and tell us more.

Shirin Etesam: 1:05:11

I would love to Thank you so much for having me on your show.

PODCAST INTRO: 1:05:16

Thanks for listening to the you Winning Life Podcast. If you are ready to minimize your personal and professional struggles and maximize your potential, we would love it if you subscribe so you don't miss an episode. You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Jason Wasser LMFT.